 03-23-2006, 2:57 PM
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AriYah
 
Joined on 03-24-2006
Huntington, WV
Posts 1
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![Yes [Y]](/torahforum/emoticons/emotion-21.gif)
The timing of the Pesach Seder
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THE PASSOVER
In the Messianic Hebraic roots faith there is some division on the timing of the Pesach Seder. I am sharing some information here, showing what I personally believe to be the correct timing. Let's begin in Exodus 12;
Exodus 12:2-7
(2) This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
(3) Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for a house:
(4) And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbor next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
(5) Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
(6) And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
(7) And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
Very quickly we already see that we were took keep a lamb beginning on the day of the 10th, unto the day of the 14th for examination, then it is to be slaughtered that evening. What evening? It is the evening following the "fourteenth day."
Also, The original Hebrew in the passage (Exo.12:3-6) is ben ha arbayim and means, literally, “between the two evenings.” Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testament tells us about this expression. It relates, “between the two evenings, Ex. 16:12; 30:8; used as MARKING THE SPACE OF TIME DURING WHICH THE PASCHAL LAMB WAS SLAIN, Ex.12:6; Lev.23:5; Num.9:3; and the EVENING SACRIFICE WAS OFFERED, Ex.29:30, 41; Num.28:4.”
Exodus 12:11-12
(11) And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is YHWH's passover.
(12) For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am YHWH.
We must establish when "this night" took place to see when we "observed" the Passover.
Exodus 12:14
(14) And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to YHWH throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance forever.
What day is "this day" and "feast" that is being spoken of here?
Exodus 12:15-16
(15) Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
(16) And in the first day there shall be a holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be a holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
So we see that there are ONLY 7 days we are to eat unleavened bread. From the evening of the 14th, going into the 15, through the evening of the 21st of this month.
Exodus 12:17-18
(17) And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance forever.
(18) In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.
We are beginning to answer some of the questions now; we see that the same day of unleavened bread YHWH brought them out of Egypt, and remember we were to eat the passover that night in haste, ready leave, and "in this selfsame night" we were brought out.
Also, as I pointed out earlier, verse 18 says again, you are to eat unleavened bread on the evening of the 14th (going into the 15th) until the 21st day of the month...and when it says the 21st day of the month here we know that this means through the entire day of the 21st, at the END of the 21st. So from the end of the 14th until the end of the 21st we eat no leaven.
Exodus 12:19
(19) Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.
Exodus 12:21-43
(21) (STEP ONE - KILL THE PASSOVER) Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
(22) And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the basin, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the basin; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
(23) For YHWH will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, YHWH will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
(24) And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons forever.
(25) And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which YHWH will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.
(26) And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?
(27) That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of YHWH's passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshiped.
(28) And the children of Israel went away, and did as YHWH had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.
(STEP TWO - THAT NIGHT WAS PASSOVER)
(29) And it came to pass, that at midnight YHWH smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
(30) And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.
(31) And he called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, and get you forth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve YHWH, as ye have said.
(32) Also take your flocks and your herds, as ye have said, and be gone; and bless me also.
(33) And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We be all dead men.
(34) And the people took their dough before it was leavened, their kneading troughs being bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders.
(35) And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment:
(36) And YHWH gave the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians. (WAIT A MINUTE, DIDNT WE LEARN THAT THEY CAME OUT ON THE FIRST DAY OF UNLEAVENED BREAD?? SO THEY KEPT PASSOVER IN THE EVENING OF THE 14TH GOING INTO THE 15TH)
(37) And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
(38) And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.
(39) And they baked unleavened cakes of the dough which they brought forth out of Egypt, for it was not leavened; because they were thrust out of Egypt, and could not tarry, neither had they prepared for themselves any victual.
(40) Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.
(41) And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day (UNLEAVENED BREAD) it came to pass, that all the hosts of YHWH went out from the land of Egypt.
(42) It is a night to be much observed unto YHWH for bringing them out from the land of Egypt: this is that night of YHWH to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations.
(43) And YHWH said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:
We just read the Ordinance of the Passover, which clearly indicates to me that Passover is done going into the 15th day.
So why does the Scriptures mention the 14th? This is the day you are to kill the passover, and prepare it. It is taught by Historians that the Passover Lamb was slaughter at 3:00pm on the day of the 14th, and this would also line up to the time Yahshua was killed as our Passover Lamb.
Deu 16:1-6
Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto YHWH thy Elohim: for in the month of Abib YHWH thy Elohim brought thee forth out of Egypt by night.
2 Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto YHWH thy Elohim, of the flock and the herd, in the place which YHWH shall choose to place his name there.
3 Thou shalt eat no leavened bread with it; seven days shalt thou eat unleavened bread therewith, even the bread of affliction; for thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt in haste: that thou mayest remember the day when thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt all the days of thy life.
4 And there shall be no leavened bread seen with thee in all thy coast seven days; neither shall there any thing of the flesh, which thou sacrificedst the first day at even, remain all night until the morning.
5 Thou mayest not sacrifice the passover within any of thy gates, which YHWH thy Elohim giveth thee:
6 But at the place which YHWH thy Elohim shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.
The Last Supper
Matthew 26:17
(17) Now the first of the unleavened bread, the disciples came to Yahshua, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
My first question is this, they are at the first of unleavened bread...why are they just now preparing for the passover?? Some Historians teach that it was common that Teachers would gather together their disciples for special Passover teachings the night before Passover, the 13th-14th evening. This is something that you can research yourself, I believe we will see this with the Scriptures alone.
Matthew 26:20-30
(20) Now when the even was come (WHAT EVENING -THE EVENING OF THE 13TH, GOING INTO THE 14TH, THIS IS NOT THE PASSOVER), he sat down with the twelve.
(21) And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
(22) And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?
(23) And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.
(24) The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
(25) Then Judah, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.
(26) And as they were eating, Yahshua took bread, and blessed it, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
(27) And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
(28) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(29) But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
(30) And when they had sung a hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.
The bread and wine was not neccesarily the Passover meal they would do. But this was done in every Hebrew's Home Daily and especially for Shabbat for 1,000's of years; the Breaking of Bread (we read the disciples doing this daily house to house) and the Cup of Wine. this begin I believe with Abraham; Genesis 14:17-20 "And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale. (18) And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high Elohim. (19) And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high Elohim, possessor of heaven and earth: (20) And blessed be the most high Elohim, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all."
This is why Yahshua says as Often as you drink this cup and eat this bread you do remember the master's death until He comes. Of course, I also believe that He taught them "deeper" meanings to the Passover, and explained to them He would become the passover lamb.
The blessings for the Bread and the Wine is:
Baruch ata YHWH Eloheinu Melech HaOlam, Bree Pree HaGafen.
Blessed are you YHWH our EL, King of the Universe who creates fruit of the vine
AND
Baruch ata YHWH Eloheinu Melech HaOlam, HaMotzi Lachem Men HaEretz.
Blessed are you YHWH our EL, King of the Universe who brings forth bread from the Earth...Amein!
Verse 29 is the Key, Yahshua tells them I will not drink of this Cup until I drink it with you in my Father's Kingdom. Also, where is the Lamb? Where is the bitter herbs? This was not the Passover Meal, this was a meal (literally; the Last Supper), and teaching He had with His disciples, after preparing for Passover (the Next Day).
Matthew 26:17
(17) On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the disciples went to Yahshua and said, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover meal?"
Matthew 27:15-16
(15) At every festival (WHAT FESTIVAL? UNLEAVEN BREAD) the governor had a custom of releasing to the crowd any prisoner whom they wanted.
(16) At that time they were holding a notorious prisoner named Barabbas.
When I read the account, I see that they prepared for the Passover, beginning at the time of Unleavened bread, because the Israelites considered the Day of Preparation, the 14th as Part of the actual feast. this is why the accounts call it Unleavened bread, or a feast day, and this allows us to be in line with the Torah.
Matthew 27:45-46
(45) Now from noon on, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon.
(46) About three o'clock Yahshua cried out with a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?", which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Mark's Account
Mark 14:12-16
(12) On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb is sacrificed, Yahshua's disciples asked him, "Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover meal?"
(13) He sent two of his disciples and told them, "Go into the city, and you will meet a man carrying a jug of water. Follow him.
(14) When he goes into a house, say to its owner that the Teacher asks, 'Where is my room where I can eat the Passover meal with my disciples?'
(15) Then he will show you a large upstairs room that is furnished and ready. Get everything ready for us there."
(16) So the disciples left and went into the city. They found everything just as Yahshua had told them, and they prepared the Passover meal.
I see here in the Scriptures that they are only preparing for the Passover, as Matthew's account states, the First of Unleavened bread was upon them, and it refers to this as the Passover, as if it is the Same Day. The Israelites custom was they considered Passover, the 14th or Preparation day, as part of the Feast also.
“And the first day of unleavened bread, when they KILLED THE PASSOVER, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?” (Mark 14:12).
Another translations says it like this:
Mark 14:12 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb is sacrificed, Yahshua's disciples asked him, "Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover meal?"
The actual “first day of unleavened bread” is Nisan 15. So what does this verse mean? The Scriptures cannot be broken (John 10:35). Actually, the term “first day” here is protos hemera, and can be translated “beginning time” or “prior period.” It is a reference to the time before the Passover celebration itself – that is, the preparation period! “First” here is number #4413 in Strong’s Concordance and means, “foremost, in time, place, or importance – before, beginning, best, chief, first, former.” The word hemera translated “day” can refer to a “period of time,” such as “the day of the YHWH,” “the day of vengeance,” etc. Therefore this verse is simply referring to the PERIOD OF TIME PRIOR TO THE PASSOVER, WHEN IT WAS BEING PREPARED FOR.
John's Account
John 13:24-30
(24) Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
(25) He then lying on Yahshua's *** saith unto him, Master, who is it?
(26) Yahshua answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judah Iscariot, the son of Simon.
(27) And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Yahshua unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
(28) Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spake this unto him.
(29) For some of them thought, because Judah had the bag, that Yahshua had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor.
(30) He then having received the sop went immediately out: and it was night.
John gives us a clue here that they thought Judah was leaving with the money bag to go and buy for the Feast...if they were keeping the Passover at that time, Judah was a little late, their thinking Judah was going to buy for that feast would have been incorrect.
Other References in the Scriptures
Exo 23:15 Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty:)
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto YHWH: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
Numbers 9:10-12
(10) Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If any man of you or of your posterity shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or be in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto YHWH.
(11) The fourteenth day of the second month at even they shall keep it, and eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.
(12) They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it.
Num 28:17 And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.
2 Chronicles 35:13-17
(13) And they roasted the passover with fire according to the ordinance: but the other holy offerings sod they in pots, and in caldrons, and in pans, and divided them speedily among all the people.
(14) And afterward they made ready for themselves, and for the priests: because the priests the sons of Aaron were busied in offering of burnt offerings and the fat until night; therefore the Levites prepared for themselves, and for the priests the sons of Aaron.
(15) And the singers the sons of Asaph were in their place, according to the commandment of David, and Asaph, and Heman, and Jeduthun the king's seer; and the porters waited at every gate; they might not depart from their service; for their brethren the Levites prepared for them.
(16) So all the service of YHWH was prepared the same day, to keep the passover, and to offer burnt offerings upon the altar of YHWH, according to the commandment of king Josiah.
(17) And the children of Israel that were present kept the passover at that time, and the feast of unleavened bread seven days. (PASSOVER AND UNLEAVENED BREAD CELEBRATED IN THE SAME TIME FRAME)
Eze 45:21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten. (CLEARLY SEEN HERE, PASSOVER OCCURS ON THE EVENING OF THE 14TH GOING INTO THE FIRST DAY OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, MAKING A COMPLETE 7 DAYS, NOT 8 DAYS, NOT 6 DAYS, BUT 7, FROM THE EVENING OF THE 14TH, UNTIL THE EVENING OF THE 21ST OF THE MONTH)
Joshua 5:10-11
(10) And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho.
(11) And they did eat of the old corn of the land on the morrow after the passover, unleavened cakes, and parched corn in the selfsame day. (I LOVE THIS PASSAGE, THIS IS ANOTHER PLACE WHERE IT SHOWS THAT PASSOVER IS BEING REFERRED TO AS THE FIRST DAY OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, THE 15TH. THEY ATE THE OLD CORN THE DAY AFTER THE PASSOVER, WHICH THEY ARE REFERRING TO ABIB 16TH AT THAT POINT)
Other References
Taken from Wikipedia;
Origins of the feast
The term Pesach is first mentioned in the Torah account of the Exodus from Egypt (Exodus 12:23). There it refers to the way God "passed over" the houses of the Israelites during the final plague of the Ten Plagues of Egypt, the killing of the first-born. On the night of that plague, which occurred on the 15th day of Nisan, the Jews smeared their lintels and doorposts with the blood of the Pesach sacrifice and were spared. (END QUOTE)
The Jewish historian Josephus tells us much about the intricate and detailed planning for the journey out of Egypt. He wrote in Antiquities of the Jews, "But when God had signified, that with one more plague he would compel the Egyptians to let the Hebrews go, he commanded Moses to tell the people that they should have a sacrifice ready, AND THAT THEY SHOULD PREPARE THEMSELVES on the tenth day of the month Xanthicus, against the fourteenth . . . and that he should carry away the Hebrews with all they had. Accordingly, HE HAVING GOT THE HEBREWS READY FOR THEIR DEPARTURE, AND HAVING SORTED THE PEOPLE INTO TRIBES, HE KEPT THEM TOGETHER IN ONE PLACE [therefore, no gatherings were required -- the people were already assembled together!]: but when the fourteenth day was come, and ALL WERE READY TO DEPART, they offered the sacrifice . . . as just ready to depart” (Antiquities, Bk.II, xiv,6).
The term Pesach also refers to the lamb which was designated as the Passover sacrifice. Four days before the Exodus, the Jews were commanded to set aside a lamb (Exodus 12:3) and inspect it daily for blemishes. On the night of the 15th of Nisan, they were to slaughter the lamb and use its blood to mark their lintels and doorposts. Before midnight, each family (or group of families) gathered together to eat a meal that included the meat of this Pesach sacrifice while the Tenth Plague ravaged Egypt.
CONCLUSION
We must remember that the "Seder" or Order of the Passover was already established, and Yahshua said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. "
(11) The fourteenth day of the second month at even they shall keep it, and eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.
Deu 16:6 But at the place which YHWH thy Elohim shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.
We know that the Torah has established this time, and we know that Yahshua never broke Torah or changed one jot (Yod) or a tittle (marking) of it. We also must take into consideration that in our translations of the Scriprture, the Hebraic meaning and teachings were purposely removed. So we must read the N.T. acothingy, in balance with the Torah, and also look to History and see what their customs would have been at that time.
Pro 20:23 Divers weights are an abomination unto YHWH; and a false balance is not good.
We must take all evidence into consideration and weigh it out. For example, there are a couple verses in the Bible that would lead people to think Sabbath is done away with, but we no better because we cannot excuse the other 100+ accounts where the Word confirms keeping of Sabbath.
The last thing I want to mention is John's account of that night with Yahshua. He mentions that Judah was leaving and they assumed he was leaving to go purchase for the feast, if they had already entered into it, Judah was a little late, and the disciples weren't thinking clearly.
Many assume that Yahshua referred to the final meal He had with His disciples as the “Passover.” How could it have been the “Passover,” since the following day would still be the “preparation” of the Passover? So in what sense was this final meal a “Passover” since the traditional Passover would not be until the next day? He plainly said to the disciples, “With desire I have desired to eat THIS PASSOVER with you BEFORE I SUFFER: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of YHWH” (Luke 22:15-16). So, what did He really mean?
Why did Yahshua that night, at supper with the disciples, speak of “THIS Passover”? Was He referring to that evening meal? Or was He not referring to the upcoming Passover which He would be unable to eat with them since He would be dead at that time? Notice what He said! The word translated “desire” in this verse is #1939 in Strong’s Concordance, the word epithumia, and means “a longing (especially for what is forbidden).” How natural! Yahshua really wanted to eat the regular Passover with them that year -- but it was “forbidden”! He would be unable to do so because it was required that He die, and become our “Passover” lamb (I Cor.5:7).
When we look at the accounts of Passover, or unleavened bread, and look at all references, as a puzzle, the pieces come together. On the Day of the 10th of Abib, the Lamb was to be taken (Yahshua entered into Jerusalem), it is to be kept until the 14th day of the month for inspection. On that day the Lamb is to be killed, and Blood applied to the door, and the Lamb cooked/burnt. At this time, when the Lamb is consumed, it is eaten with bitter herbs, and UNLEAVENED bread, from this evening, the 14th going into the 15th we are to eat NO Leaven, for 7 days. This brings us to the 21st of the month. This is the Teaching of the Torah, and what the Accounts of the Gospel seem to be saying also. Especially since Yahshua was killed on the day of the Passover, when the other Passover lambs are being killed. This would have taken place around 3:00pm on the Day of the 14th, preparing to enter the 15th of Abib.
I believe each person should be fully persuaded in their heart when they should keep the Passover. I am not offended in the least by someone keeping it differently than I.
Jer 6:16 Thus saith YHVH: Stand ye in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.
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